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Fury as ancient trees get chop
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| Before the tree surgery... |
THE destruction of two ancient trees in a Trowbridge neighbourhood has angered some residents who had no chance to defend them.
On Wednesday March 19, neighbours received a letter from West Wiltshire District Council informing them that the two Wellingtonia trees in Rodwell Park, thought to be more than 150 years old, would be felled.
In an attempt to save the trees, resident Angela Honeywell, 37, and her partner, contacted the council immediately to find out what was going on but tree surgeons arrived the next day and began to lop off branches.
Mrs Honeywell, who works at Clarendon College, said: "They are very old, grand trees and it is very sad to see them being dismembered and torn down branch by branch. I'm gutted."
"We had no idea this was going to happen until the letter arrived and it left us with less than 24 ours to react.
"The letter said residents had complained about the trees but I don't know anyone who dislikes them. They are a feature of our street and bring a bit of countryside into our urban environment.
"There is also a family of squirrels who live in the trees who have had a very rude awakening.
"Even if some people had complained the rest of us who enjoy the trees should be given the chance to defend them."
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| ... and after |
In the letter, Phil Hart from the council's grounds maintenance department said: "Following complaints from residents an inspection of the trees has been carried out which recommends they are felled within a year."
Mrs Honeywell, said: "One of the tree surgeons told me they were diseased. I'm no expert but they look very healthy to me. That is until the tree surgeons cut all the branches off."
Resident John Irons, 56, is a community fire safety officer. He said: "We get home from work and a beautiful tree has become a totem pole. I'm disgusted. I accept they might be diseased and would therefore have to come down but they haven't given us a chance to have our say.
"It's very underhand of the council giving us such short notice. It has taken part of the character of the street away. We want replacements."
The council plans to bring in a crane to help remove the massive trunks once all the branches have been removed.
11:38am Tuesday 25th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Gina, Trowbridge on 12:42pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I am a resident of Rodwell Park and am VERY upset by the way this matter has been handled by the council and, by the local residents who have complained, (whoever they are). It feels as if it is all been carried out in an under- handed way and, that no-one from Rodwell Park itself, as been given a chance to have their say. I know that I am not the only resident of the street to be upset and concerned about this having had discussions with another resident about it. From what I understand, no-one from Rodwell Park were the said residents who complained about these tress.
I rang Phil Hart, (from the council), who said replacements will be planted but not the same type. That gives me some hope as I had concerns that there might be other motives for cutting the trees down.
Rodwell Park now feels wrong, as if its oldest residents have been, cruelly, evicted.
I am a resident of Rodwell Park and am VERY upset by the way this matter has been handled by the council and, by the local residents who have complained, (whoever they are). It feels as if it is all been carried out in an under- handed way and, that no-one from Rodwell Park itself, as been given a chance to have their say. I know that I am not the only resident of the street to be upset and concerned about this having had discussions with another resident about it. From what I understand, no-one from Rodwell Park were the said residents who complained about these tress.
I rang Phil Hart, (from the council), who said replacements will be planted but not the same type. That gives me some hope as I had concerns that there might be other motives for cutting the trees down.
Rodwell Park now feels wrong, as if its oldest residents have been, cruelly, evicted.
Posted by: stanhjones, Hilperton Marsh on 1:53pm Tue 25 Mar 08
There must be a reason - but how sad to see these trees go. I remember them from my boyhood - when they stood proudly in the field behind St. Thomas Vicarage. Just fields then Up to Rodwell Lodge.
There must be a reason - but how sad to see these trees go. I remember them from my boyhood - when they stood proudly in the field behind St. Thomas Vicarage. Just fields then Up to Rodwell Lodge.
Posted by: YetiJoe, Trow on 8:36pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I suspect that the disease expert saw a nice paycheck from the Council for doing the work?
If it was the same company then this stinks.
Not saying it did, or did not need to come down, but I am always suspect when someone can earn money out of a decision that their advise is not reliable.
I suspect that the disease expert saw a nice paycheck from the Council for doing the work?
If it was the same company then this stinks.
Not saying it did, or did not need to come down, but I am always suspect when someone can earn money out of a decision that their advise is not reliable.
Posted by: AndrewLye, Pembrokeshire on 10:00pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I loved those trees when I was a town and district councillor, for the area.
There are similar trees in Roger Brown's old house on Hilperton Road. They must be the same age.
Are they diseased as well.
I trust the residents of Rodwell Park are shown the evidence of the disease.
I loved those trees when I was a town and district councillor, for the area.
There are similar trees in Roger Brown's old house on Hilperton Road. They must be the same age.
Are they diseased as well.
I trust the residents of Rodwell Park are shown the evidence of the disease.
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 11:56am Wed 26 Mar 08
This has several unpleasant aspects to it:
1) Inadequate advice and consultation with local residents. Like no warning at all.
2) No plan to replace the trees if they were indeed diseased.
3) Why clear fell the trees at all?
I've seen the lopped branches and there doesn't appear to be any untoward internal issues. The report should be available to the public and as a matter of courtesy should have been forwarded to Rodwell Park residents prior to the work being agreed
Is this a case of WWDC looking to spend loadsa money on anything before of they get disbanded?
One thing is clear though - this is a high handed, arrogant piece of council work and I for one want to see clear, uneuivocal justification for removing prominent local landmarks.
This has several unpleasant aspects to it:
1) Inadequate advice and consultation with local residents. Like no warning at all.
2) No plan to replace the trees if they were indeed diseased.
3) Why clear fell the trees at all?
I've seen the lopped branches and there doesn't appear to be any untoward internal issues. The report should be available to the public and as a matter of courtesy should have been forwarded to Rodwell Park residents prior to the work being agreed
Is this a case of WWDC looking to spend loadsa money on anything before of they get disbanded?
One thing is clear though - this is a high handed, arrogant piece of council work and I for one want to see clear, uneuivocal justification for removing prominent local landmarks.
Posted by: heather, Trowbridge on 12:06pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I am greatly shocked and saddened by this news. As a former resident of Rodwell Park, I loved the trees and felt they gave the area real character. I hope they are replaced, but it won't be the same without them. They were protected by a TPO, but the council doesn't seem to worry much about that, or the views of residents.
I am greatly shocked and saddened by this news. As a former resident of Rodwell Park, I loved the trees and felt they gave the area real character. I hope they are replaced, but it won't be the same without them. They were protected by a TPO, but the council doesn't seem to worry much about that, or the views of residents.
Posted by: Trowbridge Bloke, Trowbridge on 12:35pm Wed 26 Mar 08
THEY WERE DISEASED!
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 3:00pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Trowbridge Bloke[/bold] wrote:
THEY WERE DISEASED![/quote] [bold]We don't know that-[/bold] and there's precious little coming from WWDC that one can believe is there eh?
Why not puyt the tree surgeon's report up on the WWDC web site and let folk know a few weeks (well, months actually would've been OK according to the story above) ahead.
And you're an expert eh? I bet
Trowbridge Bloke wrote:
THEY WERE DISEASED!
We don't know that- and there's precious little coming from WWDC that one can believe is there eh?
Why not puyt the tree surgeon's report up on the WWDC web site and let folk know a few weeks (well, months actually would've been OK according to the story above) ahead.
And you're an expert eh? I bet
Posted by: Trowbridge Bloke, Trowbridge on 5:11pm Wed 26 Mar 08
No, but you obviously are mate.
You couldn't see any "untoward internal issues", so they must be fine!
No, but you obviously are mate.
You couldn't see any "untoward internal issues", so they must be fine!
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 9:04pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Trowbridge Bloke[/bold] wrote:
No, but you obviously are mate.
You couldn't see any "untoward internal issues", so they must be fine![/quote] This was done very quickly with very little notice to anybody in the street or folks with an interest - who really do deserve a more fulsome explanation of why the trees had to go.
It seems rushed - and as far as the council's concerned rushed = suspicious >>> deny that!
No options were presented to locals like trimming the trees severely.
And yes - I've seen a few dangerous diseased trees over the years.
It seems bizarre that if a developer wants to chop a tree that's in the way it usually takes months of paper pushing to get permission - when the council want to spend £10K chopping a couple of landmark trees down it takes a day or two...........
Trowbridge Bloke wrote:
No, but you obviously are mate.
You couldn't see any "untoward internal issues", so they must be fine!
This was done very quickly with very little notice to anybody in the street or folks with an interest - who really do deserve a more fulsome explanation of why the trees had to go.
It seems rushed - and as far as the council's concerned rushed = suspicious >>> deny that!
No options were presented to locals like trimming the trees severely.
And yes - I've seen a few dangerous diseased trees over the years.
It seems bizarre that if a developer wants to chop a tree that's in the way it usually takes months of paper pushing to get permission - when the council want to spend £10K chopping a couple of landmark trees down it takes a day or two...........
Posted by: Gina, Trowbridge on 3:10pm Thu 27 Mar 08
The tree surgeons, (who have been removing the trees), informed one of my neighbours that the trees weren't diseased. Parts of them were dying away but they WERE still growing. Why the whole of the trees had to be removed is, therefore, somewhat of a question? Cut back the dying parts, maybe, but actually, completly removing them altogether, is a real question? Both trees had preservation orders on them but, (it has come to light), those preservation orders were lifted. By who or when I do not know but that, makes for another question? Along with the question of how much protection a preservation order can give a tree when it can be lifted without any, apparent, consultation with those it has a direct effect upon.
As a resident of Rodwell Park I want to see the report on these trees and why it was decided that they should be totally removed. I also, want to know when the preservation orders were lifted. Why we, the residents of the street were neither asked or consulted about what has happened. This is our street and we should have been asked. The council have been under handed and have not given us a chance to have a say over these trees who were over 120 years old, (again, according to the tree surgeons), and OUR neighbours. I do not pay my council tax for the council to act in this manner. I pay it for them to carry out their duties and pay some regard to the opinions and wishes of the people they have responsibilties towards.
The tree surgeons, (who have been removing the trees), informed one of my neighbours that the trees weren't diseased. Parts of them were dying away but they WERE still growing. Why the whole of the trees had to be removed is, therefore, somewhat of a question? Cut back the dying parts, maybe, but actually, completly removing them altogether, is a real question? Both trees had preservation orders on them but, (it has come to light), those preservation orders were lifted. By who or when I do not know but that, makes for another question? Along with the question of how much protection a preservation order can give a tree when it can be lifted without any, apparent, consultation with those it has a direct effect upon.
As a resident of Rodwell Park I want to see the report on these trees and why it was decided that they should be totally removed. I also, want to know when the preservation orders were lifted. Why we, the residents of the street were neither asked or consulted about what has happened. This is our street and we should have been asked. The council have been under handed and have not given us a chance to have a say over these trees who were over 120 years old, (again, according to the tree surgeons), and OUR neighbours. I do not pay my council tax for the council to act in this manner. I pay it for them to carry out their duties and pay some regard to the opinions and wishes of the people they have responsibilties towards.
Posted by: Trowbridge Bloke, Trowbridge on 3:32pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Trees ... what have they ever done for anyone?
Trees ... what have they ever done for anyone?
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 8:06pm Thu 27 Mar 08
The trees weren't diseased and I have a suspicion that the correct paperwork hasn't been filed. If this is true then - heads should roll!
[bold]The Council Lied[/bold]
Why?
Willful municipal vandalism?
Wanton Environmental sabotage?
Stupoidity?
Greed?
Greasy palms?
Trying to run up debts for the new unitary authority ?
I see they're spending thousands on "no drinking" signs - b l o o d y fools. How about paying for some police to arrest drunks then ?
It's all spend spend spend - I hear from an insider.
I doubt very much that there was any change out of £10,000 for this piece of wanton destruction at the tax payer's expense - I'd like to turn that around and dock it from some folks pay packets!
The trees weren't diseased and I have a suspicion that the correct paperwork hasn't been filed. If this is true then - heads should roll!
The Council Lied
Why?
Willful municipal vandalism?
Wanton Environmental sabotage?
Stupoidity?
Greed?
Greasy palms?
Trying to run up debts for the new unitary authority ?
I see they're spending thousands on "no drinking" signs - b l o o d y fools. How about paying for some police to arrest drunks then ?
It's all spend spend spend - I hear from an insider.
I doubt very much that there was any change out of £10,000 for this piece of wanton destruction at the tax payer's expense - I'd like to turn that around and dock it from some folks pay packets!
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 8:07pm Thu 27 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Trowbridge Bloke[/bold] wrote:
Trees ... what have they ever done for anyone?[/quote] go and troll somewhere else
Trowbridge Bloke wrote:
Trees ... what have they ever done for anyone?
go and troll somewhere else
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 10:13pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Maybe Phil Hart wanted to show off his new clipboard , virgin hard hat and new hi-viz jacket - and practice his Risk Analysis / Health and Safety scribbling skills - which judging by the form and timing of the advice notice for this debacle are likely in need of some polishing......
Telephone manners could do with a brush up too....
Maybe Phil Hart wanted to show off his new clipboard , virgin hard hat and new hi-viz jacket - and practice his Risk Analysis / Health and Safety scribbling skills - which judging by the form and timing of the advice notice for this debacle are likely in need of some polishing......
Telephone manners could do with a brush up too....
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 10:31pm Thu 27 Mar 08
For what it's worth - Tree Protection Orders require planning permission to be rescinded - didn't see that here.
There is an appeals process to the Secretary of State - obviously someone at WWDC didn't want this - hence the 10 minutes notice of the arrival of the chainsaws.
If a tree is dangerous this can be circumvented but a full report must be submitted and in this case the one year "window of opportunity" quoted seems long enough for a reasonable amount of notice to me made to interested parties.
This is a high handed , incompetent and shameful "piece of work"
For what it's worth - Tree Protection Orders require planning permission to be rescinded - didn't see that here.
There is an appeals process to the Secretary of State - obviously someone at WWDC didn't want this - hence the 10 minutes notice of the arrival of the chainsaws.
If a tree is dangerous this can be circumvented but a full report must be submitted and in this case the one year "window of opportunity" quoted seems long enough for a reasonable amount of notice to me made to interested parties.
This is a high handed , incompetent and shameful "piece of work"
Posted by: YetiJoe, Trow on 11:19pm Thu 27 Mar 08
This is of only passing interest to me, but I hope that those who enjoyed the trees in their lives do ensure that the Council is taken to task and that they incur costs, hassle and criticism for this approach if it was flawed.
We must control our Council's, they serve us folks, not the other way around - that way lies ruin.
This is of only passing interest to me, but I hope that those who enjoyed the trees in their lives do ensure that the Council is taken to task and that they incur costs, hassle and criticism for this approach if it was flawed.
We must control our Council's, they serve us folks, not the other way around - that way lies ruin.
Posted by: YetiJoe, Trow on 11:20pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Sorry poor grammar, Councils' soon to be Council :)
Sorry poor grammar, Councils' soon to be Council :)
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 12:29am Fri 28 Mar 08
Trouble is - we (taxpayers) pay for the brazenly incompetent and delinquent goons in local government to "protect" themselves - there is sodall personal accountability. Even if they're wrong - the taxpayer pays - and the useless keep pulling down their salaries .......... this has to stop.
Trouble is - we (taxpayers) pay for the brazenly incompetent and delinquent goons in local government to "protect" themselves - there is sodall personal accountability. Even if they're wrong - the taxpayer pays - and the useless keep pulling down their salaries .......... this has to stop.
Posted by: Ringo1, Trowbridge on 6:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The trees have been the talking point of Rodwell Park for all the years that they have been there. It was also interesting to watch the people cutting thru to Victoria Road always look up at them and comment. It is a great shame that these 2 giants have been destroyed in the way they were. Surely someone at the council must be held accountble???
The trees have been the talking point of Rodwell Park for all the years that they have been there. It was also interesting to watch the people cutting thru to Victoria Road always look up at them and comment. It is a great shame that these 2 giants have been destroyed in the way they were. Surely someone at the council must be held accountble???
Posted by: Ginger, Trowbridge on 8:41pm Fri 28 Mar 08
As a residents of Rodwell Park we feel we have lost some friends, whom we have known for over 20 years (only a small proportion of their life). Huge gaps have appeared in a unique residential environment - admired by all who passed by. Why have these trees been destroyed? Who has the right to make these decisions without prior consultation with residents? Who made the supposed complaints in the first place? We totally agree with the comments made by Gina, yet another example of WWDC's abuse of the council tax and it's payers. It's all very well saying that the trees maybe replaced, but where do they propose getting a mature tree of the same stature.
As a residents of Rodwell Park we feel we have lost some friends, whom we have known for over 20 years (only a small proportion of their life). Huge gaps have appeared in a unique residential environment - admired by all who passed by. Why have these trees been destroyed? Who has the right to make these decisions without prior consultation with residents? Who made the supposed complaints in the first place? We totally agree with the comments made by Gina, yet another example of WWDC's abuse of the council tax and it's payers. It's all very well saying that the trees maybe replaced, but where do they propose getting a mature tree of the same stature.
Posted by: Badger, Trowbridge on 9:08pm Fri 28 Mar 08
As a resident of Rodwell Park, we loved the tree's, but understand that if they were diseased they would need either felling or pruning.
What is making us so angry, is the fact that we knew NOTHING of this until the day before, so the council managed to remove the tree preservation order, arrange the felling etc, without any consultation whatsoever with the local residents.
This is just so sneaky and underhand, and if this is our local council then we all need to be worried.
As a resident of Rodwell Park, we loved the tree's, but understand that if they were diseased they would need either felling or pruning.
What is making us so angry, is the fact that we knew NOTHING of this until the day before, so the council managed to remove the tree preservation order, arrange the felling etc, without any consultation whatsoever with the local residents.
This is just so sneaky and underhand, and if this is our local council then we all need to be worried.
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 2:44pm Sat 29 Mar 08
I think a subject access request for all associated paperwork / email under the 1985 Local Government (Access to Information) Act would likely turn up some embarrassing stuff.
Can't help thinking though that the folk at Bradley Road are think "can't do anything to us 'cos by the time it gets through the council will be disbanded" so.... it's make wh'hay with the public purse while there's no effective oversight/ accountability - wonder if they'll shred / delete everything before the amalgamation?
I think a subject access request for all associated paperwork / email under the 1985 Local Government (Access to Information) Act would likely turn up some embarrassing stuff.
Can't help thinking though that the folk at Bradley Road are think "can't do anything to us 'cos by the time it gets through the council will be disbanded" so.... it's make wh'hay with the public purse while there's no effective oversight/ accountability - wonder if they'll shred / delete everything before the amalgamation?
Posted by: Badger, Trowbridge on 9:42pm Sun 30 Mar 08
Thats what we were thinking - ''Freedom of information act'' wonder if they'll let us know what really went on under that?
Thats what we were thinking - ''Freedom of information act'' wonder if they'll let us know what really went on under that?
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 6:15am Mon 31 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Badger[/bold] wrote:
Thats what we were thinking - ''Freedom of information act'' wonder if they'll let us know what really went on under that?[/quote] It's not for "them" to [italic]let you now anything[/italic] they are obliged by the terms of the above act to [bold]full disclosure[/bold] on pain of prosecution!
There are a few defenses but categorically none that'll wash in this case.
Councils hate this act - oh, yes they do! :-)
A subject access request is simple to do and there is a time frame for response - failure to comply just makes it worse.....
Badger wrote:
Thats what we were thinking - ''Freedom of information act'' wonder if they'll let us know what really went on under that?
It's not for "them" to
let you now anything they are obliged by the terms of the above act to
full disclosure on pain of prosecution!
There are a few defenses but categorically none that'll wash in this case.
Councils hate this act - oh, yes they do! :-)
A subject access request is simple to do and there is a time frame for response - failure to comply just makes it worse.....
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 1:39am Tue 1 Apr 08
Ooh! look! they're planting trees! Nice hi-viz jackets n all! Trying to counteract some negatives then eh lads?
Ooh! look! they're planting trees! Nice hi-viz jackets n all! Trying to counteract some negatives then eh lads?
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 1:40am Tue 1 Apr 08
Sorry - link:
http://www.wiltshire
times.co.uk/news/lat
estheadlines/display
.var.2149834.0.trees
_initiative_at_cemet
eries.php
Sorry - link:
http://www.wiltshire
times.co.uk/news/lat
estheadlines/display
.var.2149834.0.trees
_initiative_at_cemet
eries.php
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 6:57pm Tue 1 Apr 08
Congratulations on the letter to Rodwell residents whoever you is!
A complete detailed and unexpurgated explanation of this debacle should be made available to all residents of Rodwell Park - coupled to a full formal apology individually to every resident.
Given the disgraceful behavior by the council I think that there should make some considerable effort on their part to make substantial ammends.
These were trophy trees... :-) I do wonder if their photographs are on the "trophy wall" in an office somewhere.
Like for like perhaps?
Somebody should be disciplined too - but we need to know who that someone was eh?
Congratulations on the letter to Rodwell residents whoever you is!
A complete detailed and unexpurgated explanation of this debacle should be made available to all residents of Rodwell Park - coupled to a full formal apology individually to every resident.
Given the disgraceful behavior by the council I think that there should make some considerable effort on their part to make substantial ammends.
These were trophy trees... :-) I do wonder if their photographs are on the "trophy wall" in an office somewhere.
Like for like perhaps?
Somebody should be disciplined too - but we need to know who that someone was eh?
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 11:57pm Wed 2 Apr 08
I don't know if this is related but I was speaking to some folk from the Warminster area tonight and thay were quite unhappy at what they perceived to be the noticeable number of mature trees being felled around the town...
Maybe it's just the time of year......
I don't know if this is related but I was speaking to some folk from the Warminster area tonight and thay were quite unhappy at what they perceived to be the noticeable number of mature trees being felled around the town...
Maybe it's just the time of year......
Posted by: moonrakin_wurzel, Trowbridge on 5:03pm Thu 3 Apr 08
But.... one person is staying quiet then eh?
But.... one person is staying quiet then eh?
Posted by: Badger, Trowbridge on 9:23pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Well Rodwell Park residents have submitted their letter to Phil Hart..
We await the response with interest.
Well Rodwell Park residents have submitted their letter to Phil Hart..
We await the response with interest.
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